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chuck hagel wants to run the pentagon but first a few senators want to run a few questions by him and they were specific. like, can women be defense secretary? i'm steve kornacki. here's a state that senate democrats didn't have to worry about this year. new jersey. all that's blooming in the garden state is drama. i'm s.e. cupp. have you tasted an affirmative action cupcake? they're real and delicious. >> gross. i'm toure. gun control advocates taking it to the bank literally. plus due to popular demand, my thought tons new gdp numbers. >> finally. >> you're welcome. chuck hagel is back on the hill four years after leaving the senate. hagel's former colleagues hold the nomination as defense chief in their hands. despite the thousands of dollars of ads running against him, hagel a republican is expected

to be confirmed to president obama's cabinet. if so, he will be the nation's first pentagon chief to have seen combat as an enlisted soldier. he served in vietnam alongside his brother. but that doesn't mean hagel's record comes without dirty laundry that was aired at today's hearing. >> when i voted against some of those unilateral sanctions on iran, it was a different time. we were at a different place with iran. >> what do you think that the iranian foreign ministry so strongly supported your nomination to be the secretary of defense? >> i have a difficult enough time with american politics, senator. i have no idea. but thank you. i'm on the record many times designating and saying that hezbollah and hamas are terrorist organizations. saying iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. i have always said i'm a supporter of israel. and some cases, i have said i'm a strong supporter of israel.

i have never voted in -- against israel ever in the 12 years i was in the senate. >> committee deserves your judgment as to whether you were right or wrong about the surge. >> i'll explain why i made those comments. >> i want to know if you were right or wrong. that's a direct question. i expect a direct answer. >> the surge assisted in the objective but if we review the record a little bit. >> will you please answer the question? were you correct or incorrect -- >> hagel has spent last few weeks meeting one on one with senators and jewish groups to win them over on these exact issues. he is already working out of the pentagon office and will be tasked with winding down the war in afghanistan, emerging threat of iran, somalia and changing u.s. mission after two wars. we start with ernesto lunduno. ernesto, overall, how do you think he did?

>> well, he clearly feels that we're or looks uncomfortable if that seat. everybody knew it was a combative hearing and the biggest question is how to react or be fast on the feet, if he was going to give answers that swayed any republicans that may have been on the fence. and his performance has not been all that persuasive. it's hard to imagine that any republican that was, you know, that could have been persuaded has been at this point. >> hearing aside, what in your estimation are the important things to be looking at that would be good predictors of someone being a good defense secretary? >> well, i think the most important short term problem is going to be how he deals with financial outlook of the pentagon. they're going to have to -- they're really wrest wlg the issue of sequestration, the cuts

to come in effect on march 1st unless there's a deal between the hill and the white house so that i think is going to be the number one issue. how do you make the very steep cuts so that nobody ever really thought could come in to play and now seem really pretty likely without putting readiness in jeopardy. beyond that, i think there are some very tough substantive questions of afghan policy. how quick do you draw down forces? what is the future of the relationship of the united states should and can have with afghanistan? you are not seeing a great deal of time spent on the ques. you are seeing a lot more time devoted to questions of previous statements he made about israel, about iran and about nuclear deterren deterrence. >> you know, you mentioned it looks like it's a rough day for hagel. there's no sign he's won over republicans with his performance today. there's also no sign he has lost any democrats at this point. there are no democrats who have publicly come out and said they'll to oppose him and with a

straight party line vote, he will get confirmed. 55 democrats, 45 republicans in the senate. would the republicans try to mount some kind of a filibuster where if they could hold 41 votes together to prevent the vote on the nomination. conventional wisdom heading in to the hearings is too far to step even for republicans in this day and age to take. do you think there's any signs of today's hearings, any chatter during today's hearings and the hallways there they might now be thinking of a filibuster? >> my guess is if you do see a vote split along party lines, he is likely to make it but not a ringing endorsement. he will have been confirmed, pretty serious questions and a bitter taste in congress and among people who he will have to be working with as secretary of defense. >> yeah. guys, i want to play a quick clip from senator hagel's

opening remarks. >> i'm on the record, i'm on the record on many issues. but no one individual vote, no one individual quote, no one individual statement defines me. my beliefs or my record. as i told the president, i am committed to his positions on all issues of national security. >> i think what was interesting there is you saw chuck hagel trying to suggest that we've all been taking him out of context. and extrapolating off of one quote or one vote when, in fact, there's been a fairly clear record as to where he stands on israel, where he stands on iran and i don't think it would behoove republicans to read in to chuck hagel something that isn't there. i mean, this is i think something that democrats and republicans have had concern with because his positions are to the left of president

obama's. you heard carl levin and richard blumen that will taking him to task. do you think he was pushing bad from the right or the left worse today? >> you know, he got very tough questions from both. i think the attacks were more effective and more blirsing from the gop which came as no surprise. >> yeah. >> i think senator mccain set the tone when he began with a pretty pointed line of questioning about iraq and about the surge in 2007, whether that was successful. then we saw senator cruz play pretty, you know, pretty damaging interviews that the senator hagel gave to al jazeera sometime ago and limited context provided left a pretty poor impression pregs, an impression he agreed with callers to the show that had unflattering things to say about the united states. >> right. >> ernesto, yes, we admit hagel's having a rough day but i

think everybody expects he will be confirmed and i want to talk about vietnam and the impact on the thought process over there. hagel would be the first vietnam vet head of defense. kerry, vietnam vet, now head of state. what do you think having these vietnam vets will do to the thought process going on over there? i mean, vietnam has been sort of major thing, impacting american foreign policy for decades and obama administration first post-vietnam administration among democrats. not vietnam people and bringing it back in to the equation so what impact do you think vietnam will have on us going forward? >> i think if you look at his prepared statements, or the statements he delivered this morning, he said his view on the circumstances that should guide deploying troops to harm's way, to combat should be very, very specific and very, very carefully thought out. and i think that's a philosophy

that's very much grounded in his experience as a combat veteran, as an enlisted soldier who saw combat and the reality of war. so i think, you know, i think from that perspective, that outlook is likely to shape how he conducts the afghan draw down, what advice to the white house about how quickly to pull troops and any future engagements across the world in places such as africa, elsewhere in the middle east, where you're seeing some troubles emerge and some calls for a greater u.s. intervention. i think, you know, i think he will be very hard pressed to advise the white house that the greater american intervention that putting u.s. troops in harm's way is a worthy cause in these situations. >> you know, ernesto, one thing to ask about that exchange of mccain and hagel over the surge, mccain aggressively pressing him to say was it a mistake, a good thing? i wonder if you read that the

same way with a personal angle for mccain and what i mean is when the surge took place in the wake of the 2006 midterms, republican party was sort in retreat. mccain was one of the very few that supported it at the time and i think drove him crazy in the 2008 general situation the situation in iraq calmed down and a consensus formed that the surge grown and the consensus grown and then looks and said i should have been elected president because i was out in front on this and place in history should be better. did you read it as a personal moment for him too? >> very personal moment. these two guys are close friends. they worked together far long time. but it was a very sharp exchange and i think it conveyed that senator mccain feels very strongly that he was right on the surge and that the surge worked and that he went out on a limb to support this policy. senator hagel disagrees and he had a nuanced response. he said the jury is still out

and they're still, you know, many unanswered questions about whether or not that was, you know, in fact, worthy investment of treasure and of blood. >> right. and mccain, obviously, not looking for a nuanced answer. ernesto londono, thank you so much. >> thank you. and if you liked our conversation on massachusetts yesterday -- >> nope, no. >> you'll love "the spin cycle" next. kornacki has more state politics to dissect and big national implications. "the cycle" rolls on for thursday, january 31st. we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card.

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less than a month in to the new congress and already there is turmoil brewing when it comes to what the next senate will look like. an upcoming special election in massachusetts and scandal of the top donor of new jersey's knob menendez. right now, the gop's magic number to win the senate majority in 2014 is six and will will drop to five if scott brown wins this june. the obvious path to a gop majority in 2014 would be the states that mitt romney carried november. that's west virginia, south dakota, alaska, alabama, louisiana, iowa and should be a toss-up now and long-time democratic senator and calling it quits. democrats should lose seats in 2014. and could lose the chamber. and democrats ended up adding to their majority. and the suicide club.

that might be the real story to watch in the coming months. by nominating unelectable fringe candidates, will the gop squander winnable races? let's spin about this. we talked a little bit about massachusetts yesterday. maybe scott brown wins and the republicans gate seat. the situation in new jersey, who knows what's going on there? maybe christie makes an appointment. maybe democrats win it back. but i think the real question to me and an unknown and sort of a great drama to watch over a few months and years is take a look at the races republicans need to win in 2014 to get the chamber back. here's a great example, alaska. mark begich, barely won against ted stevens in 2008 because of circumstances, namely the federal investigation of stevens, begich should be a vulnerable candidate. lieutenant governor up there, establishment republican if he went against begich could probably win but blast from the past. joe miller. remember this guy? >> yes.

>> beat lisa murkowski in a senate primary in alaska in 2010. he had the palin stamp. murkowski around him and win as a write-in candidate in november. joe miller almost blew it for them. he is back and wants to run again. if you nominate him in alaska probably saying good-bye to taking out mark begich. can republicans prevent it from happening? paul brown who's a sort of todd akin-ish candidate to run for the senate in georgia and republican s retiring. not unwinnable for democrats under certain circumstances. iowa, steve king might be running there. first of all, will the so-called republican establishment be able to deliver candidates this time? will the mood of the base change or any meddling of the party establishment result in the same kind of backlash of 2010 and 2012 and will the prospect of that happening simply keep

strong candidates on the strong lines? will the strong candidates say i don't want to be the next guy to lose to christine o'donnell? >> i think you are absolutely right and something i've been concerned about but i will report back from c-pac in marc and let you know because as you know, the conservative political action conference happening every year is a place where rising stars and incoming stars are trotted around the halls and put up on stages and meant to meet and greet and get to know them and make a splash, they meet the media. in fact, last year i met richard mourdock before we knew who he was. ted cruz, too, a full year before the actual election. so i'm really interested to see not just who they bring out, but the kinds of messages that are put up on these stages. and whether the party's going to be exercising some discipline

this year because i know that they're using cpac and looking to cpac this year as an opportunity to say, restart, reset, rebrand. >> right. >> i hope that works because we have got a lot to offer if we can do it right. >> i think it's not just so much what they say but also how the audience receives what is said, as well. >> you're absolutely right. i remind people, in fact, i wrote a column of this for town hall. the media media descends on cpac. sometimes to promote good conservatism. sometimes to catch us looking crazy and us doesn't have to be on stage. us can be in the audience. >> breaking news. i won't be there. >> what? >> not going. >> what? . i'll take notes for you. >> yeah. throw them out. so we started off thinking about bob menendez. don't know what's going to happen or what he did or didn't do. not going to blame him or call him guilty before we have all the evidence. but it's a political scandal. he may or may not survive.

interestingly, i would think that, you know, when you get elected to major office you take it as an awesome responsibility. i surely would take it as an awesome responsibility and be under a gigantic responsibility. i would not jaywalk as a congressman or senator but many people do much more. there's a long list of people who have gotten involved in relationships with younger people. mel reynolds, gerry studds, steve can do the list off the top of his head. >> buz lukens. >> went to jail. >> you'll notice -- >> a star, right? >> notice two on that list won re-election. right now there's another list of people who were caught con sorting with ladies of the night, shall we say? david vitter. still in the senate. ken calvert still in congress and of course our former governor eliot spitzer who had

to resign in disgrace. not necessarily career killers and bizarre to me. if i had to vote for somebody who's known sort of prost tooit, i would note for that person. >> a lot depends on how you hand tell crisis. >> oh, we caught you with a prostitute. no good way to answer this. >> don't do the anthony weiner thing, don't follow that model. going back to your question, steve, about are republicans going to continue to nominate the sort of crazy candidate that is can't win? and i think some of that may actually hinge on the immigration reform debate that we're about to have. i mean, you already see the battle lines being drawn. how much of the conservative party goes with this? how much does this become a litmus test? if you support quote/unquote amnesty, then the tea party and club for growth coming for you. that's one thing that could potentially happen. another senator who is somewhat under pressure is mitch mcconnell and there's an interesting thing going on,

ashley judd may run in the general election. >> oh, i hope so. >> there's no one strong in the primary really stepped in to this race to try to take him out. and democratic groups and donors are actually trying to actively recruit a tea party candidate to try to take mcconnell out in the primary. part of me rejoices and thinks that's great to mess with him, make him uncomfortable. >> mess with him. >> the more i think about it, i think there's a difference between recruiting a candidate who was not going to enter the race already. >> yeah. >> and sort of southerly supporting someone like todd akin or sharron angle and already in the race and helping them across the finish line because if you think about it the big problem with the republican party right now is so focused on winning the primaries they move to the right and the extreme. they become very bad governmental actors and mitch mcconnell is a key player here if he's more concerned of a

primary than general election, he's a poor person in the middle of the negotiations coming up. >> talking about mischief, the old kennedy family trick. the strong candidate. you recruit somebody with the same last name, two names on the ballot and then the kennedy wins. >> that's a mouthful. >> going back a ways. up next, going after gun makers where it hurts. their wallets. meet the man fox accused of strong arming the gun industry. when these come together, and these come together, one thing you can depend on is that these will come together. delicious and wholesome. some combinations were just meant to be. tomato soup from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. tomato soup from campbell's. so, i'm working on a cistern intake valve, and the guy hands me a locknut wrench. no way! i'm like, what is this, a drainpipe slipknot? wherever your business takes you, nobody keeps you on the road like progressive commercial auto.

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we're back with breaking news out of atlanta. a 14-year-old student is shot at price middle school on the south side of the city. the child is breathing and treated at a local hospital. a teacher is injured, possibly trampled in the confusion. police have a suspect in custody. clearly many unanswered questions in the early investigation but a recent in a rash of school shootings that

are all putting pressure on congress to act. and a new tactic adding to that pressure, economic shaming. former investment banker and current chicago mayor emanuel is leading advocates to pressure banks to divest from gun manufacturers, persuaded a $5 million pension fund in chicago to divest and now california's fund for teachers frozen or divested investments in gun makers. philadelphia mayor nutter compares the strategy to the one used to pressure company that is did business with the apartheid government of south africa. our next guest shining a light on the dirty dozen, 12 big corporate investors that back the gun industry. please welcome current public advocate for city of new york, bill deblazio. how are you? >> great. thank you. >> economic accountable. we know that after one of the mass shootings, the nra comes out saying, oh, now they'll come and take away your guns and the

industry profits from that and teachers and other that is profit from being invested in those companies say, hey, maybe this is like blood money. maybe we should not be part of those companies. so is this a divestment strategy that's a morality play or can you have an impact on the gun industry by doing this? >> i'm sure we can have an impact. this industry is rot on the the core. essentially making it easier for people to get the hands on the weapons even if they're used in massacres or shootings like we heard about in atlanta. business as usual is not acceptable. and we change things in part through the legislative group and has an impact where the money is. public pension fund money or shaming these big investment houses in to getting out of the guns and ammunition business. here in new york city, the dirty dozen, 12 big firms between them over 1.6 million in investments in guns and ammunition.

we want to get the money out of the industry. by the way, the industry funds the nra. if the nra has a chokehold on the american political atmosphere, they have the money to do it. >> bill, help me understand a little bit more. i appreciate the end goal that you have in mind here of increased gun control and security, but are gun manufacturers really the place to go after? aren't they just sort of responding to the existing market incentives and the legal structure that exists? i mean, what ultimately are you hoping that they would do differently? >> i want them to stop selling, to begin with, military grade weapons and ammunition on the market. the vast majority of the cases these were legally purchased weapons. this is what we have to look in the face. the massacres horrify us, especially newtown losing 20 children. it is not like the guns gotten from criminal enterprises. they were readily available on the civilian market. we should not have that kind of

weapon available to any civilian is the bottom line. i hope there will be an assault weapons ban passed in washington. we don't know if that will happen. state and local level, we have a massive tool to use which is the purchasing power, the pension power and the power to shame the companies in to changing their ways and, again, changing the economics of the nra in the process. >> bill, let's talk about tom denapoli who oversees the new york retirement investments. he recently announced that he will no longer buy stock in the gun manufacturers of ruger and smith & wesson, only two that are publicly traded but isn't it his job to maximize fund returns for his investors, not to use the retirement account to politically grand stand on this issue? >> i'm on a big pension fund board here in new york city.

new york city has over $125 million every year. there's good options for good return on investment and don't involve bad choices for the society. the example given earlier. the anti-apartheid movement 20 years ago. the anti-tobacco movement. these profoundly changed the way both government and the private sector acted. so we need to understand. the outrage in this country over guns, particularly after newtown, the highest point we have ever seen if we're going to change anything, the tool of public pension funds, the tool of going after the big investment houses is valid and looking at that case of tobacco industry -- >> you're saying the job of the new york state controller, he doesn't just have a fiduciary responsibly to taxpayers, he has a moral responsibility, that's part of the job? >> absolutely. absolutely. because you cannot have a situation where our country's in danger. our children are in danger and don't do anything about it just

to rely on business as usual. that is break point. that is break point in the history of new town and going to use any tool at our disposal. i don't care if it's seen as different or radical. any tool to break this status quo. >> well, bill, let's talk about that. see, i'm curious if you lead by example here. you are a candidate for mayor and gun control is a big issue in new york city. would you pledge right now that you will not take any campaign money from any one associated with any of the dirty dozen firms you are talking about or for from a hedge fund or wall street firm that any way invested? >> i'll make a pledge with one exception. if they get out of the industry, if they clear the decks and do the right thing, then i'd be happy to work with them. that's what we're telling them to do right now. get the investments off their books now. >> okay. so let me just -- we're clear on that going forward. a long campaign. no campaign cash from anyone associated with the firms until

they show you they're out? >> correct. >> have you reviewed your own personal investments and guarantee us nothing in your portfolio is an associated with the firearms? >> i wish i had personal investments. >> okay. >> i'm a public servant. i don't think i have that problem. >> short review. >> all right. steve russert grilling bill diblasio. thank you. >> thank you. straight ahead, a senate vote on the debt ceiling in 30 minutes. what we expect to happen there and what it means for the larger budget bat until d.c. asional have constipation,

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foregoes the threat of default but doesn't end the fiscal threat. sequestration looms large over the capitol. a provision in the bill being voted on today would whoeld house and senate salaries new york city budget, no pay. there's an incentive. joining us is virginia congressman robert scott and, congressman, let's start actually with what we have already looked at and then move forward from there. the fiscal cliff deal that passed which basically extended the bush tax cuts for those under $450,000, modified the state tax, moved the capital gains rate up to 20%, was that a good or bad deal for the american people? >> we don't know yet because what we did is half of the budget. the tax cut part of the budget. we didn't do how to pay for it part of the budget. the problem that we have gotten ourselves in to is people trying to do budgets as if the taxes

and spending are unrelated. they keep talking about reducing the size of government with unspecified cuts or to spending problem, not a taxing problem. but when you try to pin people down on numbers, you find out that what they're talking about is spending too much money on social security, medicare, head start, transportation or even embassy security. if you look at the budget last couple of years, embassy security was being cut so when they talk about these cuts, without specifying them, you're not really doing a budget. we passed -- we passed a -- almost $4 trillion tax cut without an indication of how to be paid for. now we have the sequester kind of hanging over our heads and at some point you're at a point where you have to put numbers on the table. if you're not going to do the sequester, then it's anticipated you'd have to come up with a

trillion 200 billion in actual cuts. and the fact of the matter is nobody would want to be associated with cuts of that magnitude so a lot of people are resigned to the idea that the sequester might actually going in to effect. >> well, so, picking up that point, if the option is sequester or 1.2 trillion dr $1 alternative, i think we know the alternative, a grand bargain that obama and boehner came close to striking a few times and basically half of it and a revenue component. it right now would be tax expenditures. the other half involves entitlement programs, medicare, social security and obama floated chain cpi before the new year and two summers ago to raise the medicare eligibility age. would you be more comfortable with that broad framework, half

revenue, half entitlement reform or just go with the sequester? which would you prefer? >> i would frankly prefer we did not pass $4 trillion in tax cuts. maybe 2.8 trillion in tax cuts and wouldn't have to cut anything -- >> right, right. but this is where we are right now. this is the choice to make, right? >> this is the problem. we are doing a sequential budget. we tugt do it all at once. cut taxes, how do you pay for them? if you don't pay for them that way, you don't get the tax cuts and doing things sequentially and ending up as your question suggests cutting social security and medicare to preserve tax cuts. i don't think if people knew that's what was going to happen, i think most people wouldn't have wanted the tax cuts to begin with. most people don't remember them from ten years ago and to preserve tax cuts they don't remember getting, they wouldn't want to cut social security and medicare. and you talked about raising the age of the chain cpi, both significant cuts in the

programs. it's probably as painless a way but i would not support cutting social security and medicare in order to preserve the tax cuts and what we have done in this kind of sequential budget that we are dealing with. >> congressman, i want you to help me understand something. krystal referenced the no budget, no pay provision. they won't be paid with no budget by april 15th and sounds good and i'm sure the american people are like, wow, they're doing something but 27th amendment of the constitution says no, you can't do. no law varying the compensation of services of senators and representatives shall take effect. why would you tell the american people we won't get paid until we pass a budget when you can't do that? >> there's provision in there to deal with that and that says you won't get paid until the end of the congressional session and so ultimately you would be paid and so that makes sense for a group

that doesn't need a paycheck and so for the millionaires in congress it wouldn't make a difference. you just live off the dividends and the capital gains and get the salary income later. for people living on a paycheck, it is not such a good idea. so it has interesting implications for the makeup of congress if that's how you do things. hold your pay until the end of the session and then you got all of your pay at once as if you didn't need to pay your mortgage, didn't need to make a car payment or salary during the year. you can just wait for it at the end of the year. but i mean, it is not a serious attempt at dealing with the budget problems. we have serious budget problems. we have trillion dollar deficit. we know if we cut $4 trillion in deficit reduction in 4 years we

can get what the commission said within fiscal sanity. you could have done that by letting the tax cuts expire. no sequester, no talk about cutting social security and medicare. you would have achieved your $4 trillion all at once so all of the discussion that you have suggested about cutting medicare and cutting social security is in order to preserve the tax cuts. i mean, when's the last time you heard somebody talk about a jobs bill? >> i agree but it amounts to a couple hundred or thousand dollars. most people remember it. i want your thoughts about ken c cuccinelli. what are your thoughts on his ambitions for governor? >> well, i happen to -- i happen to know his record in the state senate and he's a -- and i don't agree with most of his views. some, you know, he's been working on restoration of rights

for felons with the governor. >> not all bad. >> but basically i think his -- i'm not familiar with his book. so i can't go in to detail on that but in terms of the budget, we have serious work to do. ought to do it with arithmetic. if we're going to cut taxes say how you pay for it before you vote to cut taxes. and that's what we haven't done. >> all right. congressman, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. and up next, as much as the debt kreeling is a bunch of make believe, allegedly there are a lot of actual conservatives on college campuses. >> true story. >> i don't believe it. do you? >> i believe it. ...so as you cs customer satisfaction is at 97%. mmmm tasty. and cut! very good. people are always asking me how we make these geico adverts. so we're taking you behind the scenes. this coffee cup, for example, is computer animated. it's not real. geico's customer satisfaction is quite real though.

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he does exist. >> they do exist. >> this next segment reminded our stellar producer brian of that commercial when santa discovered walking and talking m&ms do in exact exist. it's time to debunk that same political myth about the young conservative because they do exist. and in big numbers. they're on a college campus near you. but with two very different schools of thought if you will in a first of its kind study our next guest discovered the young conservative is actually portrayed in very distinct ways. in the guest spot today, amy binder, the author of "becoming right: how campuses shape young conservatives." amy, welcome. >> thank you.

>> so, because i am a conservative and i go to a lot of college campuses to speak about this, i have a theory on this. it's my theory that being young and conservative these days is only way to be rebellious in college anymore. you know? sort of the anti-war rally or the women's rights march, i mean, these are not new things. done for, in fact, half a century. they don't feel new. they don't feel. they don't feel dangerous but a march for fiscal responsibility on the quad, that feels rebellious. that feels different and new and college kids kind of want that excitement. what do you think? >> well, we had several students in our book who told us that they enjoyed being at the center of attention as you're describing. but even more to the point, there are a lot of student who is said as conservatives on campus they were probably getting more of a better education than liberals were because liberals are complacent

and kind of drinking the kool-aid that the faculty giving them and they the conservatives were thinking about these issues and talking about them with their friends and bringing up all kinds of issues that got other people mad and getting a better education on their campuses. >> amy, there's a piece in "the national review" saying an exception to the idea of campuses as a bastion of liberalism is the fraternity and sorority system where members show up show up on campus more politically conservative and remain that way throughout their four years or however long i guess it takes. some people in fraternities, like "animal house" takes seven years. what is it about the greek system that attracts politically conservative people and keeps them politically conservative through their college years? >> it's really interesting that you raise that because in our study, i did this study, by the way, with co-author kate wood, who is a graduate student, and we didn't talk with a whole lot of people who were in fraternities. one of the campuses that we

studied didn't have frat ternity system, and the other just didn't have a lot of the students that we were talking with. i was just be speculating here, but students that are perhaps more traditionally into fun and kind of traditional forms of fun, sports and so forth, might tend toward conservatism but, again, we didn't have a lot of those people in our sample. >> colin powell was recently on "meet the press" and he said there's a dark vein of intolerance. there's sort of contributing to that dark vein of intolerance. do they understand how they're contributing to that? >> well, so here is the really interesting thing about our study. we did research on two different campuses. one an elite private university on the east coast, one a western

public university which was much larger and, as i said, public. and it was only on the public university that such actions like the affirmative action bake sale or catch an illegal alien day or the animal appreciation barbecue day, these kinds of actions were thought of as appropriate actions for the campus. and what the students said who ran these kinds of events was that they thought that they had to catch the attention of others on their campus, and they weren't really trying to get on the nerves of the black kids on campus but trying to make a point about the insidious effects of affirmative action, but my sense was that they knew that they were being very provocative and they were kind of playing gotcha with liberals on their campus. >> it's a thrill i look for every day. i try, amy. all right. amy, thanks for joining us. >> thank you very much. okay.

so get the hot wings, chips, and, of course, the beer ready. super bowl xlvii is this sunday. >> what? >> as the baltimore ravens and san francisco 49ers meet at the super bowbowl, we have an offic cycle pool going. what is your favorite part of the game? christopher william riordan says betting squares, chicken wings, and commercials. >> no football? >> no football. get on facebook and let us know what you think. tomorrow you will learn our take on the oddsmakers, the commercials. up next, stop the presses, krystal ball says ronald reagan was right. why do i suspect there is a catch here? yes she is, yes she. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. 100% vegetable juice, with three of your daily vegetable servings in every little bottle.

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new gdp numbers were released yesterday, and for the first time since the depth was of the financial crisis in 2009, the economy actually shrank. things were just starting to look pretty solid. what the heck happened? you know, i actually think the gipper may have an answer here. >> in this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem. government is the problem. >> yeah, actually pretty much. look deeper at the gdp numbers and it becomes clear that government really is the problem here. consumer spending was up. business spending on equipment was way up, and housing investment was also way up. so what gives? well, there's this. federal government spending dropped at an annual rate of 15%. defense spending in particular was dramatically pared back in the last months of 2012.

businesses also depleted their inventorie inventories, but that's not a real big deal since consumer spending was up and they have to restock at some point. the real story here is cuts in federal spending. this is what austerity looks like, my friends. at a time when our recovery is still on shaky legs, cuts in federal spending could easily send us right back into a recessionary tailspin. in fact, if federal spending had just remained even, we would have had over 1% growth. that's not amazing, but it is positive territory. but, you might say, this is probably a one-time deal, right? after all, with he had that whole fiscal cliff situation and they were probably preparing for the sequester cuts that were supposed to take effect in january. that's all true, but it's also not the whole story. take a look at this chart. since the beginning of 2009, the private sector has been in positive territory consistently contributing to economic growth. meanwhile, the public sector has mostly been a drag with this final quarter being one of the most dramatic